Comments+Week+of+March+28

I love discussing the research with other teachers! Stephanie and Kym certainly helped clarify and highlight important ideas from the article. Thanks. I had the same reaction as you Kym about the examples being older students. Wonder how all this translates to our little guys and then how we develop this as kids get older. I was hoping some of you primary teachers would have examples from your classrooms. It is helpful for me to highlight key ideas so here are some from Stephanie's and Kym's thoughts If you have other key thoughts, please add them. These can guide the lesson development. You will need to print the //Guiding Questions for Content Analysis//. Please begin to think about how to answer these questions about place value. Please check and bring to our meeting Wednesday how your text treats the topic. I also uploaded a file under Research on Place Value which Alice recommended. Please continue to add your thoughts to the wiki and bring more to the our meeting in my room on Wednesday at 1:30. Becky
 * New Mantra: **What you think about is what you remember**.
 * When you (or a student) teaches you really think about the concept. (Since place value is so critical, maybe we should have students doing more teaching about it.)
 * A lesson should truly **shape** what the students **think** about.
 * "students don't want to make the effort to learn so we spend time getting them to focus" This idea is a fully loaded thought... fully loaded with additional questions like, how many students don't think they can learn so they don't try, how many just have never gotten the message about why they come to school and can we change this thinking, how can I teach the purpose for a concept before kids do a lesson, how do I make learning truly meaningful for all students?

Hi all, I was thinking about our little ones and the best results I get from students is when I ask "how do you know?" I am forever asking these kinds of questions. At the beginning of the year, it usually yields a bunch of dear caught in headlights. However, after a little time, I find students offering an explanation without me asking. I feel it conditions them to be thinkers, not just regurgitate information. It can be very time consuming at first. The kids need to feel comfortable to take the time to think and not feel they have to jump to an answer without fully thinking it through. "Wait time" is my friend!!! Many times, I pleasantly learn that the struggling student has better thinking skills than the "quick learner". They need to know that it is not about the answer, rather, it is how they get there!!!! Example: I put di-cut hand prints on the board. It shows 4 hands with 3 fingers bent down. How many is what the board reads? Kids record there info on a piece of paper. When it is time to discuss: Yes, the kids are happy to know that it is 17. However, they are more excited to share how they figured it out. These are the ways the students figured it out! Counted each finger to 17. 5, 10, 15, 16, 17. 10 and 5 is 15, 16 17. 10 and 7 more is 17. then my struggling student couldn't control his excitement to share..... 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,17 (so proud he found a different way) lastly, another studentfigures out. two sets are 20 and count back, 19,18,17.

Sorry to drag this out, but, I think that time needs to be spent to let students know that it is great to think. It doesn't happen immediately for all. If I just said how many and got my answer and went on...... wow what I would have missed!

P.J.

Stephanie was spot on when she wrote : “In the past, we have always tried to have a "hook" to fully engage the students. But, does that "hook" lead our students to only understand in a "shallow" way? … I think the key in teaching our students in to try to truly shape what they are thinking about during a les son." That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have the hook, after all, unless you get their attention---But what you do with it is what’s important.

P.J.’s descriptions of ferreting out all the different ways younger children are thinking is something that they all feed on. They get validated. Their thinking matters. “ Many times, I pleasantly learn that the struggling student has better thinking skills than the "quick learner". They need to know that it is not about the answer, rather, it is how they get there!!!!”

Although we look for life connections a lot, sometimes kids will get hooked by thinking of something as a puzzle or game and the mathematical building can emerge from that. They like to not get “tricked” by the teacher or their friends. I’m not sure what kind of hook works for place value. It’s something like number sense that grows over time. But that’s why you’re doing a lesson study. Young kids get fascinated by beginning to deal with bigger numbers than they have. Or new ways of looking at numbers. That’s a sense of progress to them—new streets to walk down.

Wish there were more articles on place value but there aren’t as many as on some other topics. Alice

I also thought the article was very thought provoking. I have been thinking about this as I have had to teach many concepts for the second time in reviewing for FCAT. I replayed my first teachings and wondered what I had left out or missed the mark on. After concluding that they were indeed well developed lessons for deep understanding, and yet they resulted in shallow learning. As I was teaching a lesson for Becky's TM I class today, I observed my students reactions and connections they were making about number sense and mental math. This year has been a real challenge to keep my students engaged and to "care" about math. I totally agree with Becky - My new mantra is "What you think about is what you remember!" Diane

Hi All, I enjoyed the article that Alice put up on place value! As I was reading this it was like deja'vu. My class (1st grde) is currently working on place value concepts and while my children are nowhere near this class, I am experiencing some of the same misconceptions. One of the misconceptions that my children seem to have is also not knowing if a digit represents a "ten" or a "one". Often, my class will see a number (62 for example) and not be able to tell with real understanding that there are 6 groups of ten. Many of my children can answer rotely (the 6 is in the tens place) but I worry that they don't truly understand that there are 6 groups of ten and that is 60. They also are confused about what is a ten and what is a one.We have spent weeks building 10 on a ten frame, then 10 and some more, moving to building 10's with cubes, and finally onto tens and some leftover. This week in class we were working on breaking apart tens- taking the number 46 for example and showing it in it's many different forms. 10 and 36, 20 and 26, 30 and 16 and 40 and 6. WOW! This was very difficult for the children... I really feel that conversations with the children is so important and i always worry that I don't do enough of it with my class. There is this constant struggle to balance lessons from the book which seem to move at a very quick pace and the learning activities that are so valuable like the ones in this article. This afternoon I am going to pose the 11+9 problem from the article to see what kind of responses I get. Stephanie Hajdin  This article was interesting. I agree with playing as many place value games a possible to practice those skills in fun way. Student conversations and discussions are just so important. As teachers, we need to listen carefully and not impose our thinking on children. PJ, you do an a,azing job of getting your kids to "talk math" and explain thinking. It is something all teachers must make time for. It so pays off in the long run. Diane

Hi!!! :) <span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS',cursive;">A couple of thoughts come to mind on the article of Place Value. First, this process relates to the earlier article. The real beauty of the "conversation" the children had was that they were ALL thinking about the question(s) asked. Children want to be heard and to talk. That is a natural buy-in to the activity. Through this type of discussion you are forcing them to be thinking about math and not something else. Second, most teachers say that they don't have the time to devote to this type of dialogue. Third, the teacher has created an environment that promotes the idea that all answers should be explored and accepted until they can come to consensus. A teacher has to have skills in leading any discussion like the ones in the article. It's a talented teacher who can ask the right questions with a true authentic desire to know HOW a child is thinking about their process of how they got their answer. The actual examples for me are not as important as the process and interaction of student and teacher. Even the idea of a thumbs up in their lap is great. Can you imagine being a student in that class and being part of the discussion. I truly believe most students begin to tune out when they are not brought into the teaching process. Even as an adult, we love it when we are given a chance to tell others in a class environment what we think and we are heard by our peers. I'm not talking about just giving an answer but describing what we are thinking. This applies to writing as well. In the 60's, there was an famous educator named Glasser who stated that young people want to be in control and his theory was to give a student as much power and control over their learning as they are able to handle. This article demonstrates what control looks like for first and second graders. <span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS',cursive;">Kym Taylor Whitehurst

<span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS',cursive;">

<span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS',cursive;">The document above is the list of standards we created which shows the development of place value understanding across grade levels. You may want to print this to have it nearby as we continue. I think I got them all but if not please let me know. It was a little tricky to cut and paste. <span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS',cursive;">Becky

<span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS',cursive;"> <span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS',cursive;">As you read, if your instructional goal is place value, think about what place value is and consider whether //each// of these is or contributes to place value understanding. Also, do these go back to the when place value first matters? (I have forgotten whether you selected a grade level to work on this yet. Sorry.) <span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS',cursive;">Alice